Modern-Day Witch Burning? Could it happen to You? | The Metaphysical Mysteries Podcast

By | October 7, 2022

This special episode of The Metaphysical Mysteries features two guests: Ed and past guest Dr. Kathleen Tallent Ph.D. Ed is a professional police supervisor tossed in a psych ward, due to mystical experiences recorded in a diary. Dr. Kathleen Tallent Ph.D. joins Ed our hosts to uncover this travesty of justice. They will join Tom and Terry to discuss the modern-day “witch burning” – what happens to the people who have mystical experiences and other psychic phenomena? They end up in a situation that all of us would dread.

Former officer Ed will be sharing how he found himself in a dire situation. Ed is retired law enforcement and has 30+ years of experience in that field and is a colleague of Terry and he has known Ed for decades. Ed shares his own metaphysical and mystical experiences and how it was an awakening for him. Additionally, Dr. Kathleen Tallent PhD. will be chiming in from the psychologist and life coaching point of view.

Dr. Kathleen Tallent Ph.D. is dedicated to teaching and empowering others to live balanced, whole, and authentic lives. She received her doctorate in clinical psychology from the University of Wisconsin – Madison with a minor concentration in cognitive neuroscience. She is co-owner of Therapy Café, a practice expanding to multiple locations in the Washington, DC area that combines counseling and holistic services, and currently serves as a clinical overseer of the Peer Support Program for the Prince George's County Professional Firefighters and Paramedics Association (PGCPFPA) in Maryland.

Dr. Tallent offers therapy programs, trainings, and workshops for first responders, and for state and local agencies, and professional trainings for mental health and holistic professionals, including seminars and workshops on subjects related to Integrative Mental Health. She lives in Maryland.

For more information and scheduling contact:

Dr. Kathleen Tallent
Therapy Café
PO Box 763
Prince Frederick, MD 20686
(443) 295-8955

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The Metaphysical Mysteries Podcast | Dr. Kathleen Tallent Ph.D. | Psychology | Psychics | Spiritual | Spiritual Mentor | Mediumship | Mediumship Sessions | Medical Intuition | ESP | Metaphysical Experiences

Foreign Good afternoon folks uh this is Terry And Tom and we're here again with the Metaphysical Mysteries today we have two Guests which is unusual for us and we're Going to be talking about what I would Consider to be a modern day witch Burning Uh in other words what happens to people Who are having mystical experiences and Other psychic phenomenon I guess I would Say and they end up in a situation that All of us would dread and so I have with Us Dr Kathleen Talent she has been with Us before you can see her on the podcast And uh she's going to be chiming in from The uh psychologist point of view and Life coaching point of view uh and Ed uh We've got you here as uh the person who Found himself in a dire situation I Would call it and uh so Um maybe and keeping in mind it it is a Retired law enforcement and uh has you Know 30 plus years experience in that Field I've known him myself for decades And when I found out that this happened I said boy this is something we need to Share with the public so because people Are constantly asking when do I say Something when do I come out of the Closet if I'm I'm having these Experiences so and I'm going to let you Kind of start in any background you want To give and kind of go from there

Okay thank you Terry very much I Appreciate you having me on your show Today so I'll just uh I'll tell the Story in very short form Um March of 2020 uh After a few years of having quite a few Experiences myself mystical experiences And really opening up an Awakening Uh I was keeping a journal And that journal was from the standpoint Of an observer Uh from a neutral standpoint I would Write down everything that I experienced Or that someone told me maybe an Intuitive or a shaman Uh and I I had that journal in my office in my Home and my wife and I at that time my Ex-wife now again this was March of 2020. I had that journal in my home in my Office it was mine it was my private Property without my knowledge she broke Into it and Uh was disturbed by what she read Although she never said a word to me About it from that point she went behind My back Uh again we're living in the house Together but we were you know in the Process of getting a divorce And she went to the county first uh with An affidavit for an order of protection Um and then

In in short had deputies come to my House serve me with that and I was taken Uh to a local psychiatric hospital Um something that she had told them and They were there were at least eight Just absolute lies inside of this Document they just were not true or Things she had taken out of my journal And misrepresented them uh So The court system unfortunately in this Situation and I understand why favors The wife the female in in in the Relationship although I have never in 36 Years of marriage I have never touched Her I've never abused her Ever and So anyway she uh she took this there the Law enforcement showed up my house one Night Um she hadn't been there again I knew Nothing of this Took me by surprise I even knew one of The officers who was there uh because I Trained law enforcement still Um had just had her in a class the week Before And they had me committed to to a uh a Psychiatric hospital Um So who is it exactly that had you Committed and of course obviously this Was against your will so how did that Background yes so what what happened was

She told them inside this document Inside this sworn document that I was Currently Uh uh suicidal Which was a complete fabrication right And Unfortunately they law enforcement well They call it an ambulance I mean I Wasn't fighting anybody of course I was Perfectly fine and I understood that if I were to do anything that would be Violent any nature it would or in any Way shape or form it would just make me Look even worse so I walked to the Ambulance got in it and went there and Assumed Um that when I went into their intake That I would be talking to a crisis worker And that they would understand that I'm Perfectly fine Well unfortunately that's not what took Place uh she had through this document Pre-loaded the whole thing with not only Um the hospital not only with law Enforcement in the courts but also with My family And my children And her family she was very quick within Moments of me going there to send all of This documentation by email to everybody As she possibly could Um So

There's a lot more to that story but That's essentially what happened from That point Um I quickly realized once I was in there That I was uh there to pay the bills Uh the hospital was going to make sure That they diagnosed me Um with something that really couldn't Be argued with and that was bipolar Even though none of the diagnosis Was for me is she never the The Physician who was a female never spoke To me about anything she came in Introduced herself the first full day And said you're bipolar and I of course Disagreed but Um I love the I love the Snap judgment on your bipolar uh Kathleen is is this is it this is not Normal I'm assuming Well uh it's not normal it's not normal Um the part about how you were Hospitalized based on what somebody else Reported to health professionals is Surprising so I don't know all the Details about how they arrived at that But usually they Um You if you um someone is concerned about Your well-being you would be taken to an ER and have a full evaluation and they Would listen to you and what yeah no one Would kind of make their best clinical

Judgment from there So the crisis worker Um that I saw in the intake of this Hospital Um interviewed me of course off of a Check sheet and had all the information Already from what my wife had said about Me and the affidavit she had tendered to The county I will add that when she tried to get That order of protection the judge said That there was no abuse and that the Best he would do he did not give her Order of protection the best he would do Is set a court date and that court date Was for two weeks from that day and we Did go to that court date after I got Out of the hospital I mean she lost She never had an order of protection uh My family uh was led to believe that she Did And uh So and let me ask you this yeah so there Was actually a judge obviously that had To order this done Yes okay Yes it was based on an affidavit your ex Filed at the time and but there was no Verification did they use this Diary of Yours as verification of of her thoughts Or just randomly she just decided to Have have you committed so to speak Well I can quote the psychiatrist in a Hospital when I brought this up to her

The very first time I met her Um I said you know these things never Happened and she said exactly this to me Your ex-wife put this into uh an Affidavit and so I have to believe her Not you Oh boy and that was that and that was That Um After a few sessions with her well not Sessions each day we would have five Minutes with her uh each patient that Was there would have about five minutes With her Um she kept getting me mixed up with Other patients Um but nonetheless probably edgy's Probably bipolar yeah probably so at Least the attention deficit maybe Um But so midweek uh I sat there after a Couple days there I said Doctor I have a Question for you and and as I was very Cooperative because I knew Um that I had to be cooperative you Can't be in those situations not Cooperative it just makes you look as Though Um there's something wrong with you if You're not so anyway I asked her this question I said my Understanding after having a son who's Bipolar uh for he's 27 now and seeing

That all of his life I said My understanding is that bipolar just Doesn't sneak up on you when you're 27 Years excuse me when you're 57 years old Uh it presents itself much earlier in Life And I told her I went through all of my Career as a law enforcement officer and You know being vetted as law enforcement If you were bipolar you know in your 20s They would probably realize that or Somewhere along the way it would come up And she looked at me Turned away and said nothing The next day She said well Upon further examination of your of your History she goes Um which was my history was what my ex Had told her uh I believe these two have Uh uh schizoaffective disorder And I said oh along with bipolar and she Said yes you also have schizoaffective Disorder And I said what's that based upon okay Yeah okay what what Kathleen what the Hell is that what is schizoaffective Disorder yeah yeah actually To me I would never diagnose both of Those things together anyway because Schizoaffective disorder is having Aspects of psychosis as well as aspects Of mood which would Encompass that Mania And or depression so it's kind of either

One or the other you wouldn't get both Diagnoses at least I wouldn't do that Okay and for the listeners out there I Want I want you to I'm going to recap This again what we're talking about here Is Ed having had some mystical Experiences he recorded it from an Observational point of view this this Diary that he had it in was weaponized By an ex and he has found himself in so Many he's found himself in this um you Know mental institution with whatever You want to call it and for Psychological evaluation and I'm gonna Hear I'm going to tell you this I want To do a personal testimony this is the Most same normal person that I've ever Ran into in my life and I cannot imagine The kind of situation but you know when I said mother modern day witch burning This seems to me that this is all about A lack of knowledge by the doctor this That was there and the judge who was Part of it a complete lack of knowledge Of anything mystical or metaphysical And there's no Advocate to step in and Say hey This is normal if you're actually in the Psychic medium work or whatever or just Observing mystical stuff nobody was able To step in that had any kind of Leverage That could have minimized this and so Forth so

Um I I find it extremely disturbing for Those out there that we speak to here on This podcast every week Um that are saying hey I don't really Want to come out of the closet because This could happen to me so I guess I'm Gonna I'm gonna try to ask questions of Of you all Um what could you have done differently What would you do differently in the Future to avoid this and and for both of You your opinions on When should you come out how you should Come out I have opinions because I Certainly counsel people on that every Day it seems like a very common thing But uh Kathleen I'm gonna throw it to You first on that and then we're going To go to Ed the man with the plan here Yeah there's several factors involved Here one of the things that I think About when I first hear just the whole Experience is there's a classic study in Psychology it's from the 1970s rosenhan Where this group a small group I think It was like eight to ten people they Went into a mental hospital and checked Themselves in intentionally as part of This research study and they said like Really minimal things like I hear a Voice you know just very vague kinds of Things and they wanted to see what Happened because after they got admitted They acted completely normal like

Themselves just they were themselves and They got labeled uh based on like I Think one of them was writing in a book Or whatever walking around and it would Get there was a bias toward Um you know considering just their Normal typical Behavior to be mental Illness and so that study was Groundbreaking because it showed that There is a bias in the mental health Field toward that and there's a stigma Toward mental illness so that's one Factor I think about right off the bat That you lived that experiment because That's exactly what time you were you Know of sound mind there but they were Telling you that you know you had all These diagnoses and issues Yes that's one factor I was gonna say Tommy you do you do this clinical work Too have you run into this kind of thing Yeah I was gonna say I spent a period of Time working in a state luck facility And I can identify with what you went Through And I'm going to be probably less nice Than you Terry I'm going to say the Acclimation needs to go back to school And learn how to be a clinician before You diagnose someone how about have a Real conversation with them instead of You know reading someone else's Affidavit that should be a place to Begin but not the place to end isn't

This let me throw this out and or go to Ed but for the other two clinicians here In this malpractice in some form I mean When we know we've got a perfectly Normal person and they've been labeled With this and I mean you know there's Privileges that he uh you know lost uh In in the process with this because of The label What I would say I don't know enough of Those details like what maybe they had Seen or not seen but I would I would Pretty safely say that it was bias and It might be the bias in the system Itself because if somebody is you know Saying you know and filling out an Affidavit and saying that all these Things happen then at some level the System with people within the system are Trained I guess to take that seriously So that's a problem because the other Angle to this that that's an issue is That this was clearly an attack so after You've had this Awakening you know this This you know all these experiences then Uh for various reasons uh the motives Maybe were an attack so uh it becomes Very I think it is a cautionary tale to To and to try to kind of pick this apart And and try to help others understand What to do if they're in a similar Situation if their family or friends or Someone turns against them What do you do

Tom you have anything on that Yeah I mean it's just one of those Things I mean I think back to the first Time you and I shared what we did And how long had we known each other Before we took that risk despite the Relationship we had for decades yeah Exactly You know so it's very hard when you Don't have those relationships with People that depth of time and you know Interaction how do you voice what you're Experiencing without labeling yourself In a lot of ways sure hey I don't give a Rat's ass so but I never have asked Ed He can tell you and so But it did uh you know here's the thing Okay anything you would do differently I Mean obviously you didn't get to talk About any of these mystical experience It doesn't sound like with this Clinician right you didn't get to talk Oh no there was she never asked me Anything she just each day when I would See her for five minutes Um she would announce something else out Of this affidavit that I had supposedly Done uh in the past and that was to Shore up and prove that I was in fact Bipolar and had schizoaffective disorder Um most of it was in the affidavit was Not true it may have had a sliver effect But yet was Tweaked

Right and manipulated manipulated as the Right word here uh there was a great Deal of manipulation uh in in all of This Um so Not once did she ask me anything about Me or how I felt about something she was There to tell me what the problem was And that it was obvious they're in a 70 Bed unit that I was there to pay the Bill because I was insured and there had To be something wrong with me because if Not she had to let me go Um and I can I can share with you one Other thing that I found a little bit Disturbing it was manipulation inside The hospital Briefly uh there were two sides to this Unit there's the acute side and the General side the acute side of course is For the worst of the worst cases are Um lots of noise lots of things going on That are disturbing especially when You're trying to sleep On the other side is the general side And that's where people who come in you Know they just had a momentary thing They just need a few days or whatever Maybe they're bipolar or something else Well from the intake on day one they Took me to the acute side because I Refused to sign myself in I refuse to sign myself in and as I'm Sure you're well aware if you don't sign

Yourself in then they have to take you To court in order to get paid they have To have you committed and I would not Sign myself in so they kept me on that Acute side for two days Um and every couple of hours somebody New would come in and and Put on the sales pitch of you know if if You just sign in then you can get out of Here in five days uh if we have to take You to court of course it could take Well we don't know how long it could Take it could take weeks Um that's and I'm quoting that it could Take weeks it's what they told me Um if you sign in you can go immediately Over to the general side where you can You know have uh sessions with you know General Sessions with meetings with Everybody else and you've got a TV over There with uh you know a break room and Everything you know pouches and uh Uh it's a lot more amenable Which of course it was finally by by the End of the second day I'm like this I'm I'm done I'm sorry excuse My French Um I'll sign in just get me over there I Want to get out of this place so as soon As I signed in everything was great they Moved me right over to General and that To me is a manipulation keeping you for No reason because I wasn't violent I had Had nothing but

I was nothing but nice while I was there In the face of all this and to keep me On the acute side for no reason other Than to leverage me into signing in so They could get paid easier Uh is I think a travesty And thinking back on it that really made Me angry Um at the time I was just sick and tired Of being over there with the worst of The worst Cases and I don't think that's a bad way Right but they get problems they got Real problems you're in there you're Serious I got pissed off at you They were violent Um you know nobody bothered me but it's A matter of what's going on around you You know people violent hitting things Throwing things you know walking up and Down a hall you know screaming cursing Um and and so yeah that that really Didn't set well with me that that kind Of manipulation takes place they could Have just put me on the general side They have no reason not to in my opinion Other than what my ex-wife had said About me Um right so Anyway Um I'll turn it back over to you yeah Okay well you know let me let me go back And okay so we're talking around some

Circles here so Um and clearly this this is something That would Should piss everybody off Um if you have a child or you have a Maybe a family member who's getting the Opportunity to see mystical things uh And then this kind of a situation could Happen I mean this is I the crossover between the criminal Justice system and the psychology world This is the area where they they cross Paths on a routine basis and of course Uh all three of us four of us for that Matter are are routinely involved in That in in a career path and so you see This uh quite often but I'm surprised That and the deputies probably just Didn't have any choice they were just Given a court order and they had to go Carry it out and but in many states we Have the involuntary Um you know situation where we can take Them in for some states 72 hours some 24 Hours just kind of depends state state And but even the police officers do a Much better evaluation of whether They're going to take somebody take Their freedom and put them in a facility They don't want to be at in the first Place uh so this is travesty is the Least word I would use you know and make You want to kick somebody's ass to be Honest because here you are legitimately

Having experiences and um and then it Turns into this giant cluster which is You know unacceptable in every way so I Let's kind of get can we get to some of Those experiences so people actually Know what we're talking about here in That uh this this diary was stolen and Then they weaponized it so What were you seeing that was so bad Because I'm sure the three of us are Going to go that sounds pretty normal to Me Uh I I in well in categories uh I Learned how to uh access my akashic Records sure and I was exploring past Lives um quite a few of them Um I had visited with the shaman Um here in my hometown And talked about past lives and and what I'm here to do in this this life and Um I went down to Ecuador for a week With the group a group of other life Coaches actually and a small group and We uh we used uh Ayahuasca while we were there And Um I have seen I've been face to face with Um Apparitions in in body form in human Form Right I've had uh Uh Claire audio experiences

And uh a lot of clear sentience and I Think that's probably the probably the Biggest one is my clear sentience Um especially through my Kundalini I had a and here's something I think Will shed light on some of this I had a friend of mine who is or or was Working as uh an intuitive Um who had done a couple of readings for Me and she was exceptionally intuitive Out of the blue She said to me that my ex had a And this was not during a session she Just said this my ex had A an entity that was or a spirit a Negative Spirit Um That was with her and that had traveled Around her family And this is what she was telling me And that uh you know just so I was aware Of it basically Um Well what and I wrote that in my in my Book and of course when she saw that she Didn't say anything to me about it even Though I was treating her just fine she Turn this into a fear-based Uh thing and and you know once she said That to everybody else then it's uh Along with a healthy dose of fear Um and manipulation of the facts Um it turned into Um something more what we've been

Talking about Yeah right that was the real fire Starter I'm sure it was I'm sure it was well Folks out there listeners listen talking To a shaman I mean that's part of your Rights you know on the First Amendment Religious rights to talk to Shaman Shamans are considered like famous Priests and preachers and so on and so Forth you have every right to talk to Any kind of clergy you want to whether People agree with it or they don't agree With it or they're all in or they're all Not it is a matter in America you're Allowed to do that so that's that's one Thing taking a trip with Um life coaches uh going to Ecuador or Peru or any of those Places there Is so common I mean there's regular Tours that go there in legitimate Organizations that do research that go And the Ayahuasca is a mix of the Shamans uh in that area Um that you ingest and it helps you uh Potentially open up your mind to Different Um assets facets of mysticism and so on And so forth I mean it's a short-term Thing some people get sick even doing it And they don't do it anymore and then You know And I work in this field too so when

They say there was an entity I get that Quite a bit and it's running around with Family members well in the Bible they Call that a curse Okay because it goes from family member To family member so each one of these is Easily shot down in the sense that They're completely legitimate Expressions of a religious belief or at Least a curiosity and an exploration of Other potential religious beliefs that Are out there and that there's nothing Unusual about any of that I don't see Anything but it's just from ignorance Plain ordinary ignorance that caused uh You know this entire thing in my opinion And of course vindictiveness you know Because I don't think she was actually Really upset about this it's just a tool A method of the madness to to jam it in You at the time and I'm not going to get Off on the whole divorce thing that's Really kind of not what we're just Really kind of talking about if you come Across these things when do you come out When do you not come out and uh how do You do it so um Kathleen you're getting Getting insights for us on any of this Yeah well I do think That you have to be careful because These kinds of things can happen and This is an extreme example but I do Think in the mental health field there Even there's a lack of training and

Understanding in anything Having to do with the Unseen okay that's And and for some who and then when you Add the bias in and when we add the Attacks in as well uh where there's just Pressure for people to do something That someone might be considered a Dangerous self to others by someone Else's testimony or something right then That becomes a problem and um and also I Think that when you have These Well to go back to the training I I don't think there's really we're Told in the mental health field or Trained to to kind of acknowledge Someone's spirituality or religious Beliefs but I think that when somebody Has some sort of Awakening experience or Some kind of intense experiences or They're seeking they're they're they Might have Um like you were talking about the clear Audience or some kind of experience you Know in the Unseen uh people a lot of Mental Health Professionals and certainly those in Training they don't know how to handle That they might just kind of Automatically reflexively check the box Thinking um that that's on halluc Hallucination an auditory hallucination Or a visual hallucination Etc that that's part of their training

You know they're just kind of told Because remember the field of mental Health is very much worldly you know it Acknowledges things that you can see and Touch but not the Unseen Absolutely Tommy you got you know chime In on that yeah I mean that is the Current state of affairs if you go back In early years they were more open to Being receptive to these Concepts But then when you have regulations and Such you know in control it's changed The game Um you know like the work I've done with The energy psychology stuff you know at First it was discounted now they're Starting to say oh maybe there's Something value to this but the next Step now is they're trying to regulate All of this get taken away from people That don't have certain degrees Absolutely and energy workers from state To state now are you know Reiki people And so forth are the really Under threat of not being able to do it Um you know even hypnosis in some states Is highly regulated I know in uh Florida Uh you have to have a PhD or an MD in Order to do it uh and and that's insane They've been we've been doing hypnosis In the world for eons thousands and Thousands of years uh in order to help People so if Ed was uh accessing the Akashic records and just so people know

The akashic records for the listeners is Just The memories of the soul in the Akash It's a Sanskrit term is all it really Amounts to other people would equate That with the Book of Life are you Written in the Book of Life from a Christian point of view and you go back Through your Many different lives that you've had now If you're not a believer in Reincarnation it doesn't make much sense To you but just bite your time 85 Percent of the world is in agreement With reincarnation only in America do we Get a raised eyebrow uh when we talk About that so being able to access Through meditation which is biblical in And of itself and it's also in schools Now and it's in therapies that how to Meditate yourself into an understanding Of life Um this none of this is scary none of This is wrong and it is just disgusting That we even have to have that but I'm Just going to say this get to the point I I tell people when they ask me uh do I Come out and I say the way you come out His tiny little drips and drabs a little Bit at a time where the people around You friends family that are you know There not only do you come out but you Don't want to come out until you fully Understand it yourself if you understand

It yourself and you've got reference Books manuals training whatever the case May be then you have something to back You up and when you say a little Something and say here I was reading This book and I had a similar experience To what this author and this author and This author all said and they call it This oh okay you know now whether they Believe it or not that's but I tell them Just in drips and dabs and over time Your circle your inner circle gets it And Then the greater Circle starts to get it And then you get your feet under you in The sense that you really know how to Say it in the right way there's always In the police work we do a thing called Verbal Judo and uh Verbal Judo is a way To talk to somebody to keep them from You know Getting in a fight with you for all Practical purposes or anybody else for That matter a psychologists are Oftentimes trained to do the same thing So um that's the way I kind of approach Releasing any metaphysical experiences And or find a group find a group that's Around that you know is very open for That and they're not nuts in any way Shape or form in fact some of the people I have are medical professionals I won't Tell you what kind of medical Professionals but that that are around

Regularly and they're religious Professionals as well as uh other kinds Of professionals so people who have a Brain know Intuitively that there's more out there Than what we're being told and to Experience that is is not wrong in fact It's what you should do to expand Yourself in your Consciousness so uh Ed I don't know what how that settles with You Oh right on point right on point Um and I should add too that that I'm a Reiki practitioner uh Reiki master and That I tend to channel Um during Reiki sessions and also Sometimes uh when I'm just out and about I Channel people's pain Just out of the blue and uh Without going deeply into that uh that's That's what I've noticed lately Um so I'm very open I'm very connected And I don't say no to anything I take in All information uh and I consider it uh Some things are more important than Others some things I believe more and More than others but I never say Something is wrong just because someone Else has experienced it and I The westernized Psychiatry does not see It that way Um anything in in my opinion and in my Experience uh anything that that happens In this realm is seen and directed

Toward mental illness right Kathleen you Want to jump in on that one yeah and and I I absolutely agree and based on also What you are while we're talking about That I think you do have to be mindful Of your audience when I mean that's the Reality when you are talking about any Of your experiences you really have to Be careful and uh because some either Some people might be afraid even friends Or family they may be afraid or taken Aback and not know what to think maybe At best they would be afraid and others Might outright attack because you know For whatever reason maybe they're Judgmental or they're Um they're reactive in some way and and You do potentially open yourself up to Be a Target and just by virtue when you Think about the whole spiritual realm I Mean if you are Um sort of I don't know I call it activated you Know really activated and and gaining a Lot of understanding and knowledge that Might open you up to be a Target that's Just the reality and unfortunately you You were violated and your you know the Notes you took were actually taken from You and used against you I mean that is An extreme case but even that goes to Show that you even have to Um I don't recommend you know being in Fear about it just being smart about it

And knowing who you're talking to like You're saying in in Little Steps and Being aware that other people are not Are going to have a different world view You know I I got to go to the judge too Because they spent no time looking at This they just took this affidavit and Just process it stamp stamp stamp sign Done just like that you know it is Because you know from my experience nut Jobs don't keep a real thorough diary on Observational notes they just don't do That and uh this is somebody who's Trying to to make note of a experiences For their own reference and like you Said that's the violated part it was Stolen taken and that is where the judge Should have said wait a minute this is Somebody's private diary and we have no Proof that any of this is anywhere close To violent or or somehow uh detrimental To the family or anything else like that It's observational notes and I'm not Going to Um you know order anything in this case Because there's nothing there because The worst part about it is where's the Due process there was nobody no lawyer Nobody to intervene and say whoa judge Hold on this is perfectly normal let's Get an expert on the phone and then We'll tell you that you know that kind Of thing that didn't happen and so folks You know when I said this was a modern

Day witch burning you know I I that's What I think it is in the old days they Would have just Ed would be dead right Now because they would had him strapped That leader hung or or crushed with Stones or or burned at the stake because That's how we used to do it and God Aren't we past that by this time and uh Apparently not when it gets into the Criminal justice system and the the Untrained uh unaware psychologists that Work in cahoots with them and it's Really something that we all need to be Quite aware of and and be cautious of And listen if you you make a first step Into your family and they go ah we don't Believe any of that crap okay good then Don't say it again just keep it to Yourself and deal with it in other Circles that probably do understand it a Little bit wiser a little more Open-minded and that's that's where you Can express some of these things and You're going to find once you do this There is a number of people I mean I Don't go all the way back to the Bible Because you know some of what I teach is What would you have done if this had Been Ezekiel or Micah one of the Prophets who was hearing stuff from God And they they they put it in a they Wrote it down and people you know Obviously got it Did they need to go into a psych ward he

Would have been diagnosed as having a Psychotic disorder by someone with a Worldly view that's definitely where We're at and another thought I have About it is that so if if you are Um kind of exploring your your Spirituality and and learning and and Getting I would say activated that is in And of itself it could be Um ungrounding or you know you might Have maybe destabilizing and you know it It is there is potentially a problem you Know in getting grounded and getting Your bearings so that's a concern Because you need to find the appropriate Supports to help you through this you Know whatever that might be Mind Body Spirit and be able to right and and you Might you know many out there your Family friends may not get it and and um Just and then once you're in the mental Health if you're in a mental health Setting like a hospital that's when You're going to get viewed through the Lens of mental illness That's going to happen there's a bias You bet you're right and you know all Four of us are all all four of us are Life coaches All of us You know and I would I would throw this Around the circle here I'll start with Tom and we'll go to Ed and then come Back to Kathleen but if you had somebody

Coming into you for our life coaching Session or two or three Um how would you tell them to approach This Tom I would have him explored as long as They're not hurting themselves or others Go for it you know let's let's get them The resources let's track down what They're saying and believing See if we can coach them along into the Direction they need to go and again as Long as there's no harm there what's the Problem with exploring Back my head simple Exactly I agree with that completely Um just to be open Two things around us that we may not be Able to see and experiences that we may Have that we can't necessarily explain Um I think having a mentor through all of This if a person can find a mentor I Happen to have had one during uh this Time of my life I was I call her the Angel that dropped into my life just Before I knew I needed one and she was An intuitive for about and working in in That field for about 10 years Um and uh She really she really backed me up but I Think just to add to what Tom said was Then maybe to have a mentor or at least Search for one Um if nothing more than just maybe an

Online group or something We can safely share right I'm sorry I'm Done yeah I would help Absolutely and how Can help lure this I mean what a Tremendous gift that is you know and and To be able to harness that gift you know And and use it you know and really to More fully align Mind Body Spirit Because you know things can happen fast So sometimes you gotta catch up and kind Of recalibrate and then have a plan Moving forward you know how are you Going to use this to uh serve others or Use this in your life yeah for good That's what I teach especially when the Little ones come around but I teach I Tell their parents you know when they're Starting to have these mystical Experiences one they have to learn to Use this for themselves that's that's Number one and be safe about it and not Be Um scared and then two they have to Learn to use it for their family what's What good can I do with this skill this Gift Um and it's a god gift is what it is uh And then ultimately for mankind how do I Use this gift to improve the world and Then I try to give them textbooks Um or rather resources that they can go To and feel like they're part of a group They're not the first one in the world

That's ever went through this they don't Have to reinvent the wheel there is an Entire industry Um dedicated to the metaphysical and you Can start with the Bible if you knew how To read it but uh you know you know There is uh more metaphysical Interpretations about Stephen harefield PhD he did great uh metaphysical Interpretation of the Bible what it Really means and it makes a whole lot More sense you know then I go to uh Another one which is a great book is the Journey of souls by Dr Michael minute And PhD great great book and then if They're seeing things I go to the veil Um Blake Healy he's a minister Um I've been able to see Angels and Demons since he was three and it's a Great book uh we've got wife and kids And stuff less I knew he was in Georgia And so those are some things that I Would recommend to people to look at First and go okay I'm not alone now how Can I reach out like Ed said try to find A mentor or try to find a group that Will help you go through these Experiences uh but if we can get to the People early now we all are you know a Little long in the tooth for being Considered kids at this Um and so we have more life skills but Can you imagine being a three-year-old Five-year-old and going through this and

Scared to even tell your mom and dad you Know that you're having these Experiences for fear they're going to Throw you in the clink somewhere That'd be crazy Tommy you have thoughts Yeah I mean the little kids are going to Be worried about just upsetting mom and Dad and getting you know punished period You know enough to be the big send you Away kind of thing but just you know the Timeout's the corner because I saw Something you know the imaginary friend Those kind of things you know a lot of Kids bring to the game Got you back Ed we're going to start to wrap it up Here so any final thoughts Um yes I I in hindsight I wish I had Locked my uh Journal up in a safe uh I Did not I didn't realize she was going to be Rifling through my desk but nonetheless Um just uh protect yourself Um I think I had uh because you know People in your family if they get wind Of this we'll start snooping Yeah you just assume that they will at Least and and either have it with you or Or if you do keep it or don't write it Down uh I tell you know there are some times I Wish I hadn't written anything down But uh

Yeah yeah Making record at that that's always a Challenge Because that's what everybody looks for Is the record Yes No no that's all I was going to say was Just uh just watch your back yeah for Sure work smart as I say Um don't give them anything don't load The don't load the gun with bullets for Somebody else Make them find them one at a time if at All Um Kathleen what are we supposed to say To a psychologist or psychiatrist if we Run into them face to face kind of like Uh you know Tom and I are divers so we Run into the great white shark uh we'll Tell you how to act so you tell us how To act if this would happen to us Tricky because there's so many Individual differences that I think it Would have it would be a situational Case by case You know situation I think using your Discernment skills is really key or or Learning to develop them and also having Good boundaries just learning to read Other people and kind of work off the Assumption that they're going to be Following the medical model where they Are trained to have that bias I mean It's part of their training you know to

Look for that that's the lens they view Things you know and and we we're trained Or taught to to understand the Difference but but I guess just Appreciate that the the spirituality is A lot of the things that that you might Be experiencing are not in their Textbooks they're not trained or taught About that so just kind of assume that They're not going to understand and Maybe go from there hopefully some will And be able to be a little more Open-minded about it but um that would Be my general advice and to have learn To discern and to have good boundaries Around who you tell what to Anything you just absolutely would say You don't tell your psychiatrist or Psychologist In this situation like Ed would have had Or did he play it right did he play it Right the way he did it I I don't think he did anything wrong You know right yeah I mean there may Have not knowing all the details there May have been signs or red flags earlier On that maybe Ed you didn't catch as far As how this could be used as a weapon Against you okay but in the moment in The situation you know it does remind me Of that rosenhand study where okay here You are in the in the psych hospital and They're you know you're going to be Viewed through a particular lens but I

Think that here here's a general I guess A general piece of advice is sometimes People who who are seeking who are you Know really learning a lot or getting Activated they might be you know wildly Enthusiastic about that right and just Want to scream it off the rooftops that Is not a wise thing to do okay and maybe Uh framing it within the context of hey A preface of I am learning a lot about My spirituality and what I'm doing and And so that that kind of hones in on the Training that a lot of people get like In terms of the mental health field to To recognize that there are Um you know religious and spiritual Differences and to not you know over Pathologize that but if you kind of Frame it as that not I guess in other Words within the context of you and your Beliefs not your experiences because They're going to be that's going to Trigger them if you just talk about your Experiences of seeing and hearing all These things they're gonna just it's Gonna trigger them to think it's a Hallucination or something like that Exactly exactly and you know since I get Called to do exorcisms You know I have to immediately and Oftentimes these people have not been Evaluated by an MD for make sure they Have sound minded and so forth somebody Uh or a psychologist or psychiatrist

They haven't been evaluated and trying To actually find one that would do a Legitimate evaluation in my experience Has been very very challenging for those Folks Um and of course if you do go they're All scared to go because exactly what You said they are going to be labeled With something if you show up at Somebody's doorstep and that's what they Do so I end up in a situation where I Have to do a wham bam quick evaluation Very often as to whether this person is Legitimate in their Sense of is an exorcism needed you know And I had one recently and and uh no I Don't really believe that an exorcism Was needed but I do believe uh Perspective was needed and some Counseling was needed and the ways to Address emotional issues PTSD that have Not been addressed uh and and so this Person was looking to um Blame another or another source for Issues that were their own and that Hadn't been dealt with but I've also had Them where they created an entire Different personality uh in the sense That they start talking differently Acting differently as the Civil effect You know that we talk about and so I Immediately slide them off to a Psychologist psychiatrist both for Proper chemical treatment as well as

Therapy uh and you know but in this Situation in order to do that you have To know what's normal in the Metaphysical field in order to say That's normal or it's not normal and This is where it institutions of Learning universities where people are Getting their phds and master's degrees And counseling and psychology and Whatnot there needs to be a course uh or Two in this kind of stuff with people Who actually know what they're talking About and so they can go back into Shamanism and you know men the physics And and so forth in a way that's Educational Totally clears out the ignorance so that And there is actually I had a my Professor that taught me uh hypnosis There is a formula to figure out whether Somebody's schizophrenic or if they are Actually having Events clearly that wasn't exercised uh In this case and I will say again and as We close this thing out you know uh it Is the most normal person I've ever come Across and you know sophisticated smart He's got all acrossed all the t's dotted All the eyes and you know continues to Do that and so It's a cautionary note for everybody not Everybody in your circle is is your best Friend and you really do as everybody Here I think is in sync be careful uh

When you start to let this stuff out and I don't think you'll have much problem If you slowly let it out and back it up With a lot of time and textbooks and so Forth mentors to help you through this Process I'd like to add on that note that I Think one piece of advice I would have Is also to as you're maybe learning to Adjust and grow from these experiences And is to seek out support from Non-traditional sources okay and tell This until the system changes which is Not going to happen overnight you know Find maybe uh get Recommendations for someone who would be Understanding maybe a coach you know Coaches don't have to rely on diagnosis At all you know they don't have to to Use Insurance things like that so you Can bypass all of that and and you know Get help get support to help you work Through this in another way right and I Know Catherine you're available for that If people want to get a hold of you and Is there a particular website or email That you want to put out there so if you Have these problems yeah I have a brand New website that's getting launched and It's a Www.dr and I do coaching as Well as other therapy but my coaching is Very separate and I am very committed to

Helping people on these issues I and I Actually think that a lot of people who Are in the helping professions or First Responders people who are out there on The front line they can easily be Targets for this they tend to be a lot Of them anyway really empathic and and Uh you know kind of open uh or Increasingly open to this and they need A lot of support sometimes because it's Easy to get burnt out but it's also easy To become a Target and you know you need To get support in working through all These things Exactly okay very good well hey Ed Thanks for telling your story I mean You're welcome extremely helpful for People to listen to this Kathleen thanks For your input from a psychologist point Of view that's extremely helpful and uh Tommy as always you know Yeah I appreciate you both coming on and I think it's awesome it's it's getting There I mean the people I've talked to In recent years went to crack that door Open to the possibility it's amazing how Many people are also keeping this quiet And they're looking for someone that They can share this with Um if you don't mind it just to kind of Wrap it up for the audience How did that end for you that time that You had to spend at the facility and you Know where you're at today how did that

Transition finish up Uh it was a total of eight days because They had given me a medication which I Felt no effects from That they had to have blood work five Days after they gave it to me so it Turned into eight days adding on the Other days where I would not sign in so A total of eight days finally on the Eighth day when I met in the morning With a psychiatrist she just looked at Me and she said well I don't have any other reason to keep You And she said so you're going home today Um If if I can have just a moment to add Sure the way I got through this when I Realized that first evening that I was There when I realized that they were Going to keep me I said okay First of all I need to have a plan and That plan was To accept where I was in the moment and Accept what was happening to me even Though I disagree with it vehemently Um and even though I wanted to scream at The top of my lungs I just simply Accepted it then from that point I told Myself I have to be kind and Cooperative Throughout this process because that's The key to leaving anything else that's Not kind and cooperative and happy

Will feed into their narrative Third and this is the part that that Really I think made a difference for me Is I said okay I'm here I don't like it But what I'm going to do is look for Every possible lesson In this experience that I can find And so every part of every day I looked For the lessons whether it came from Physicians staff other people uh that Were also in there I just looked for the Lessons and Um That Plan gave me or helped me ground Basically Um and and as well as grounding Physically throughout the week I gave myself every morning uh time to Cry into a towel where no one could hear Me because I knew if they heard me Crying so I would take a minute and just Let all my emotion out into that towel Um and then go about my day And And I think having a plan like that is Is what really got me through those Eight days Fantastic yeah wiser words couldn't have Been spoken there you got it folks since I have a plan if you get stuck in this Situation Um don't fall into screaming and crying And just try to be cooperative and get The hell out or your free person again

Which is incredible that this even Happened in the first place but I'm Going to add also on that note sometimes And this is where discernment comes in Sometimes less is more and it's better To just say nothing Yeah exactly same thing in law Enforcement sometimes it's best to say Nothing and uh you know we all have our Own jobs and we all have our lenses that We see through our Distortion of reality If you will and uh so we had it's a true Experience that Ed had and for all the Listeners out there you know I want to Thank you all for listening Um take these all these folks here would Be great mentors for you every one of Them will have some uh contact Information up on the website for Everybody and uh for everybody else Don't stop your mystical experiences Just Moderate who you let know about it in a Very safe way and from all of us here at The metaphysical Mysteries we appreciate Your time and we will talk to you next Time with another exciting guest See you later bye